How to British Rock Tone ?

[philomena]

[Mod edit: Spam has been removed.]

[carlaz]

Free, Bad Company, and Cream would all be associated with "early" Marshalls. There are actually lot of subtle variations in "early" Marshalls from the Cream era (late '60s) to the Bad Company era (mid-ish '70s) -- and you can read probably more about all that online than you may need or want to. But, anyway, those guys used various different incarnations of those amps. I presume Clapton-era Cream was a JTM-45/100 with EL 34s? Paul Kossoff used various Marshalls, including JTM-45/100s, Superleads, and Superbasses, probably variously modded, though much of his particular tone might be associated with his use of "bass" speakers (55hz, as in the then-current Marshall bass cabs, instead of 75hz in the usual Celestions intended for guitar cabs of the period). Mick Ralphs likewise used 100w Marshalls, probably Superleads (?); he also used the "Echoplex preamp" trick, I think.

So, the obvious choice of an amp model for this kind of tone in AmpliTube is the JH Gold. This is technically part of the Hendrix package and (as I understand it) a careful model of a genuine Hendrix amp, but otherwise basically a JTM-45/100, the major difference being that it has (or is modelled as though having, anyway!) KT66 tubes in the power amp section instead of EL34s. It's one of my favorite amp models from AmpliTube.

Humbucker guitars (like LPs) are kind of "dark", and Marshalls are kind of "dark", which is why a lot of players back then used treble boosters (alas, models of any of these in AmpliTube ... yet ), but otherwise you may find backing the bass knob way down and cranking the treble (and perhaps mids and presence) is a good start. You can also "jump" the inputs on the JH Gold just as on a physical 4-input Marshall; I don't think as many players from back then did that as we sometimes now think, but some did. So, if you think it sounds good, do it. And then, if you want to invest in the Fulltone SSTE model (IMO, well worth it), this is basically a modernized Echoplex clone, and you can use it as a preamp (the model is presented as a "rack" unit model, but you can put it in "stomp" position for this purpose) that boosts the signal, especially highs, and rolls off some lows -- which is just what various players of that era did with original Echoplex units. You may need to refer to the SSTE manual (available online) to help tweak things just how you want, but it's pretty straightforward. The SSTE model has become my favorite delay in AmpliTube. (There was an Echoplex-based model in the original Hendrix collection, but I didn't actually like it so much, and used the Echoman-based model instead -- until I got the SSTE model! )

Then, obviously, you want everything to run into some kind of vintagey Marshally cab, though there are various stock options that could be appropriate (e.g. 4x12 Closed Vintage 1 & 2, 25C, 75C, and J120), and the choice of any one of those can actually make quite a difference to the final tone -- even more, once you start messing around with swapping various speakers in and out of the cabs. I might start with the 4x12 Closed Vintage 25 C model, set up a basic tone I liked on the JH Gold, and then start messing around with different cabs and speakers.

If you want some variety on the basic Marshall vibe, try one the HiAmp (i.e. based on HiWatt DR103) and the Orange OR120 models. A similar EQ philosophy (i.e. lows down, highs up) probably applies here. The HiAmp cab model and its modeled speakers are also fantastic. So is, in fact, the Orange PPC 412 cab model, though it is technically a modern design with modeled Vintage 30 speakers that didn't appear until the mid '80s, I think. The modeled Slash Marshall cabs also sound great, but also have Vintage 30s. You could use these to slightly modernize your tone, or you could even try slapping more vintage-style speaker models into these hypothetically "modern" cab shell designs. I've had results I've liked from matching up the Closed 4x12 J120 cab model with one of the Slash cab models. Go nuts!

[garfy]

^^Kudos points aplenty to Carlaz for his seemingly unending knowledge of guitars, amps, tones and rock history.

Have you ever thought about writing a book?

[carlaz]

You are too kind. No, really: people who actually know about these things have written books -- though I am not sure if anyone buys them! I am just a beneficiary of the vast amount of information about gear and players available online these days. There is a lot of misinformation, too, but you can quickly start to cross-check things and figure out what is more or less likely.

Tragically, I really don't have a lot of experience with a wide variety of real, physical amps. I have always moved around too much, from continent to continent, and always had to spend money on other things. So I'm not even a good (or at least qualified) judge of how well AmpliTube compares to the "real things" in most cases. But -- as far as I can tell -- I think the newer AmpliTube models do a pretty decent job of getting about as close as you can get, hunched over your computer with a set of headphones, to the behavior of the real gear -- except that it won't (or need not) blow out the walls of your home studio by producing sound pressure levels capable of sterilizing local wildlife.

Of course, if IKM were so kind as to release some more based-on-vintage-Marshall models, perhaps a nice based-on-vintage-Laney model or two, and some treble booster models ... then I would be in a happy vintage modelling heaven (or closer, anyway ).

[carlaz]

I tried some combinations but they are sounding very noisy.

To be fair, cranking an amp does produce a lot of hum and hiss in many circumstances. But -- although this is not an authentically "vintage" solution (if that matters when dealing with modelling!) -- try the Slash Gate stomp model, which is a nice little model (technically part of the Slash collection, as the name implies) based on the MXR Smart Gate pedal (for which you can download a PDF of the actual manual). Very useful for attenuating the noise you can get in any higher-gain situation, IMO. If you have noisy distortion/overdrive/fuzz stomp models in the pedal chain, you can slap multiple Slash Gate models before and/or after them, configuring and turning them on/off as needed.

[DC42]

"But -- as far as I can tell -- I think the newer AmpliTube models do a pretty decent job of getting about as close as you can get, hunched over your computer with a set of headphones, to the behavior of the real gear -- except that it won't (or need not) blow out the walls of your home studio by producing sound pressure levels capable of sterilizing local wildlife. "

Agreed the new models are good (Fender 2 is well done imo).

"producing sound pressure levels capable of sterilizing local wildlife"

LOL!

[felipecouto75]

I like these settings for a typical Marshall Vintage sound:

Stompbox: overscream with medium gain and full volume, tone at 6/7.

Amp: I suggest the British Lead S100 with 50W EL34 in Poweramp (very important for fuller/bigger sound) settings:
gain, volume: full
bass, treble: 5/6
medium, presence: 7/8
amp reverb: 2 (very important to smooth very high frequencies)

Cab: RedPig with 75W Celestions

Mic: Dynamic 57, very little above the center of the cone, far away from the grill (try to find the sweetspot)

Effects: reverb and deley to taste

[carlaz]

Amp: I suggest the British Lead S100 with 50W EL34 in Poweramp (very important for fuller/bigger sound) settings

The British Lead S100 was my "go to" amp before the JH Gold and some of the Oranges came along. It's still pretty solid, even if dating back to the original Hendrix package.

felipecouto75 makes the excellent point that the AT2-era models were very customizable, and the fact that you would switch the power amp section on the S100 down to 50w is very useful. (You also have the option of switching in an 150w power-amp module from one of the other amp models!) Various vintage players (e.g. Duane Allman) preferred the 50w Marshalls because they would (obviously) overdrive earlier than the 100w models. If nothing else, if you had two players with Marshalls in a band, then pairing a 50w with an 100w would get you different tones.

If AmpliTube came out with new "based on 50w Marshall 1987" as well as "based on 100w Marshall 1959" amp models, I would probably buy both.

amp reverb: 2 (very important to smooth very high frequencies)

Good tip! It's worth noting that the British S100 model has a spring-reverb unit reverb built into the head model, while the JH Gold (like actual early Marshalls) does not. (I think the #2210 variants of the JCM 800s were the first Marshall models to have built-in reverb.)

[felipecouto75]

The British Lead S100 was my "go to" amp before the JH Gold and some of the Oranges came along. It's still pretty solid, even if dating back to the original Hendrix package.

carlaz, which cab and mic combination do you use with the JH GOLD?

[carlaz]

carlaz, which cab and mic combination do you use with the JH GOLD?

My kind of "default" starting preset runs the JH Gold into a 4x12 Closed JC120 (originally from the Hendrix package) with a Dynamic 57 on the cone and a Condenser 87 on the edge, and a 4x12 1960BV SL (from the Slash package) with a Ribbon 121 on the cone and another Condenser 87 on the edge. The modeled speakers in the Slash cab are Vintage 30s, which were first produced in the '80s, I think, and the Ribbon 121 is based on the Royer 121, which is from the late '90s, so it's not like this is a '70s purist setup -- but, hey, we're amp modeling anyway!

More recently, I tended to starting mic'ing everything with a Dynamic 57 on the cone and a Dynamic 421 on the edge (and bring in the Ribbon 121 if I want to tame some high-end fizz or harshness, or the Condenser 87 or Condenser 414 backed off a bit for a different vibe.

But my "default" setup (miss and all) is from the AT3 era, and the newer speaker modeling in AT4 lets you do all kinds of crazy stuff that I've only really started to explore more recently. For example, I've had good results from taking a 4x12 Closed Vintage 25C cab shell but making all the speakers Brit Anniversary 2s, or putting the HiAmp speakers in a Slash cab shell .... The sky is the limit! The amount of tonal variation that you can get by messing with speaker and cab shell models is insane. This is a seriously under appreciated feature, I think, perhaps because fewer players are familiar with swapping real speakers (swapping models is much easier!). IKM should do or commission some tutorial-type videos that go through this feature.