How to "use" loops in the Session or DAW

[wschmaltz]

Newbie here -- I load up Dubstep 1 - 140BPM. They map across the virtual keyboard and play just fine if I click 'em with the mouse. But they don't integrate (move up) to instrument session list (like the other instruments do) when I click them.

So...how they hell do I use them? Can't drag 'em into the DAW. Just playing them one at a time against my backing track--and that's really lame.

I see how these video tut's on all the features of ST3 but dang little on how to DO ANYTHING within the DAW session.

Any help or useful comments would be appreciated.

[Daniel_IK]

Hi - welcome to the forums.

While you may not get an exact answer, the use of loops in SampleTank 3 is rather subjective. For example, I like to use these loops for LIVE play rather than production. Let's say you have two MIDI controllers; a drum pads and keyboard. You can trigger the loops via Drum Pads while you play instruments via keyboard.

However, there are certainly ways of "using" these loops in your DAW. Assuming by "use", you mean recording them into your DAW. A simple way of doing this is to: track (record) the SampleTank outputs, edit the loop points, and place them anywhere in your DAW.

Another way of recording loop instruments is by using the PADS mode in SampleTank. You can insert your Loop instrument into PART 1 of SampleTank, then go to PADS view. From here you will be able to assign your Loop notes to any PADS (1-16). You then have additional control over the loop such as LAUNCH and MODE. This mode may be more ideal for your recordings.

[wschmaltz]

You mention PADS (which I don't see anywhere in ST3) is that referencing an add-on? Like your iRig product?

Your comment -
Assuming by "use", you mean recording them into your DAW. A simple way of doing this is to: track (record) the SampleTank outputs, edit the loop points, and place them anywhere in your DAW.

Is there any YT demo of this type of use?

I've watched all the IK videos, but I think you could make a few more to get a bit more in-depth and granular -- like manipulating patterns that were dragged to DAW, routing all the outputs,etc. Basically, more how-to integration with DAW.

[falconep]

I'll try to help a little (even though you may have already figured it out by now).

Chapter 8 of the ST User Guide explains PAD mode. When you have selected your LOOP under the INSTRUMENT & PLAY tabs, look at the top bar (red). From right to left you'll see EDIT, MIX, PLAY, and then a keyPAD. Press that and the PAD grid window appears. It's mainly for a drum pad midi controller; but it can be "played" by clicking your mouse on any of the pads.

I'll try and explain how to get the LOOP into your DAW by using PATTERNS (since a LOOP is just a PATTERN that repeats)
Using PATTERNS in your DAW is literally a "drag'n'drop". I'll use ST drum patterns as an example.
• In your DAW, add about 8-10 empty tracks
• Use the top track to select ST3 as the instrument FX
• Move the ST3 window over so you can see it AND your DAW tracks at the same time (important)
• Pick any drum kit in the Instrument tab (got to start with the actual instrument before a PATTERN can be heard). Your track in DAW will probably show that Instrument Label once you've selected it. DON'T CLOSE THE ST3 WINDOW!
• Click the PATTERN tab in ST3, then select your Instrument, then it's genre (Rock, Techno, etc.)
• You should now see a sub menu with things like Chorus1, Chorus2, Fill1, Fill2, Verse1, Verse2, Intro, Outro
• Here's the fun part: Drag'n'Drop each of those over to the empty tracks under the top track, then be sure to change the Track LABEL to reflect what PATTERN it contains. You should see the Midi note patterns in each of the tracks. No FX is needed for these tracks; they merely hold the pattern to be copied. See YouTube video below
• You can now "build" the entire drum part of your song in the TOP track (with the FX loaded) by simply copying each of the items in the lower tracks and dropping them where you need them.
• When you've completed the build, simply hit play. The TOP track has the FX loaded and is the only one that you will hear with all the assembled parts.
• Word of caution if your DAW is like Reaper - It's tempting to make the TOP track a FOLDER with all the PATTERN tracks below it the CHILD/STEM. But then you'll have a mess in the TOP track because a FOLDER PARENT automatically copies in all the other tracks inside the FOLDER. But of course, you can turn off all those if you like the idea of a FOLDER. I take the precaution of making the "mess" a REGION with it's own color when it do that.
** Under the new v 5.11 of Reaper you can do all this in a SUBMIX.

Okay now back to your LOOPS. (I have not actually tried this, so maybe DanielIK can confirm).
Hopefully from the above explanation you can see that when you select the VSTi from your DAW and ST3 window pops up:
• you put the two windows side-by-side
• you pick your INSTRUMENT LOOP in ST3, and is reflected in your DAW Track FX track
• with both windows open, arm your DAW track to RECORD
• over in the ST3 window hit the loop key of your choice on the virtual keyboard to start it looping
• Back in the DAW window, hit RECORD
• The DAW track should start being populated with the LOOP midi notes until you hit STOP in the DAW.

I sure hope this is actually the way it works for LOOPS. The PATTERN exercise has helped me understand the relationship between the DAW and the VSTi FX.

This YouTube should help you wrap your head around the concept. It mistakenly calls the "Drag'n'Drop" items LOOPs; but they are actually PATTERNS:
VST Drum Tracks in Reaper - https://youtu.be/xg2dBfYCbx0

[falconep]

I took the time to experiment and found the answer to recording ST Loops in Reaper

How to Record Sample Tank Loops in Reaper (and probably any DAW)

It's all about routing:
1•Find the INSTRUMENT/LOOP and Trigger Key you like in Sample Tank ahead of time
2• In Reaper: Add two tracks (Top Track: Instrument/Loop - 2nd Track: Recorder)
3• In Top Track click FX & pick Sample Tank VST3
4• Click on the INSTRUMENT/Loop you want (#1 above), LEAVE ST open so you can see both Reaper Tracks and ST Loop Keys
4• In Reaper 2nd Track, Route its INPUT from Top Track
5• Arm both tracks in Reaper
6• Set the record mode on 2nd track to Record Output ...
7• Click RECORD in Reaper
8• In Sample Tank, click Key with your LOOP/Pattern to start loop
9• 2nd Track in Reaper will be recording the loop audio wav until you hit STOP
10• When satisfied, move the Track Item from 2nd Track up to Top Track
11• You can now delete the 2nd Track
12• SAVE the Project (or Template if you will use again in the future)

[mindbody]

'falconep' - Thanks for figuring this out! I'll give it a try.

And 'wschmaltz' - I heartily agree! IK should have some step-by-step tutorials about this - getting ST loops into different DAWs.

[falconep]

I have found the simplest way to get SampleTank Loops recorded as MIDI in Reaper.
1. Add a Virtual Instrument track in Reaper
2. Click FX to pick SampleTank Instrument Tab
3. Select the Loop you want
4. The Virtual Keyboard at bottom will now have the Trigger Keys in grey. Each grey key is an ON/OFF switch.
5. Remember which loops you want to use in your track. Keep ST window open
6. Arm the ST track, start RECORD when ready
7. Using the ST Virtual Keyboard or a midi controller, etc. hit the Key that had the pattern you wanted ONCE.
8. One midi note will appear in the track recording. This is the ON trigger. Let the track keep recording your item.
9. When you wish to stop the loop, press the same key ONCE. A second midi note will appear in the track recording. This is the OFF trigger. Your chosen loop will record between those two midi instances.
10. Other loop patterns can be added, even mixed in with other loop patterns because only their trigger keys control them.

If you edit the drum item in the midi editor, you will see just the two notes in their lane (which is the trigger key for the loop). If the C1 key had the loop pattern, there will be two midi notes in the C1 lane, ON and OFF.

[stringsandwich]

Anybody know how to do this with Cubase? I would think it's similar but with different names which I can't figure out. Why is this so hard?

[Peter_IK]

Loops are triggered by certain MIDI notes. If you instantiate SampleTank 3 in your DAW as a virtual instrument and set your MIDI channel on a MIDI track that triggers SampleTank 3 to the same MIDI channel as the loop instrument is set to in SampleTank, it will trigger the loop when the corresponding MIDI note is pressed (or put onto the piano roll).

Loop instruments are covered in the SampleTank 3 User Manual section 3.1.1 - Three Types of Instruments where it elaborates on how Global Play affects loop behavior in a DAW.

[stringsandwich]

Thanks for replying Peter.
This is still foreign to me. I'm used to ez drummer: drag and drop the loops into cubase where I can edit them.
In the Neil Peart drums, it seems the demos are the only loops which can do that.
I want to be able to edit the beats ie: put the snare on a different beat etc.
Any way to do that to the loops within each groove?
For example, the Lime Groove has 32 loops I would love to be able to use after altering them slightly.
Thanks in advance for any help

[Peter_IK]

Thanks for replying Peter.
This is still foreign to me. I'm used to ez drummer: drag and drop the loops into cubase where I can edit them.
In the Neil Peart drums, it seems the demos are the only loops which can do that.
I want to be able to edit the beats ie: put the snare on a different beat etc.
Any way to do that to the loops within each groove?
For example, the Lime Groove has 32 loops I would love to be able to use after altering them slightly.
Thanks in advance for any help

Hi, you're welcome. I think the issue here is the difference between audio loops and MIDI patterns. With MIDI patterns you would be able to drag them to your DAW timeline but audio loops are audio (even if they are, in some cases, "sliced" into sections/parts) instead of MIDI data triggering an audio sample.

[stringsandwich]

Thanks,I was afraid you were gonna say that. So all of the Peart, Bozzio and Cobham loops are audio, correct?

[Peter_IK]

Thanks,I was afraid you were gonna say that. So all of the Peart, Bozzio and Cobham loops are audio, correct?

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/st3neilpeartdrums/

Neil Peart Drums sound and groove library for SampleTank 3 is a new meticulously recorded SampleTank 3 instruments collection that includes over 2,000 drum samples and more than 800 audio grooves played by Neil Peart, the legendary drummer of the iconic Canadian band, Rush, recently inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame.

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/st ... zziodrums/

Terry Bozzio Drums is a new high-definition SampleTank 3 instruments collection. It includes a huge 1.7 gigabyte library with more than 1,800 drum kit samples and 350 meticulously recorded loops.

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/st ... bhamdrums/

Billy Cobham Drums is a new high definition drum and groove SampleTank 3 instruments collection. It includes more than 2 amazing gigabytes of over 2,000 meticulously recorded drum samples that include more than 400 audio grooves played by Billy Cobham, the legendary Mahavishnu Orchestra and Miles Davis drummer whose amazing performances continue to inspire generations of musicians both old and new.

However, a newer drum library's description mentions:

Want to add some '80s punch and flair to your next big production? Check out Hugh Padgham Drums, a high-definition drum and MIDI groove SampleTank 3 instruments collection. It lets you take full control of the engineer-producer's unique "stone room" drum sound with over 3,600 samples and 240 MIDI patterns.

I can't say that means going forward everything will, but at least that shows some promise and a key difference in the context of this conversation.

[stringsandwich]

Yeah I didn't read those. Got the extra packs with the bundle

[takaliuang]

Thanks,I was afraid you were gonna say that. So all of the Peart, Bozzio and Cobham loops are audio, correct?

From those 4 kits, you already have 252 MIDI files (grooves), and you can drag drop to the track:
1. Peart: 4 grooves
2. Cobham: 4
3. Bozzio: 4
4. Padgham: 240

But all loops from grooves in INSTRUMENT tab are AUDIO, you cant dragdrop them to the track.
and All grooves in PATTERN tab are MIDI files, you can drag drop them to track.


AND I JUST FOUND OUT this trick in case not all grooves (MIDI) appear: Go to PATTERN tabs, and click REFRESH button, (located next to FIND button bellow the list), and ST will recache the list and all grooves MIDI will appear! I guess there are about more than 700 groove we can use with drag'n'drop for acoustic drum and more for other instruments.