Input Gain Advice/Question in AT5

[Matthias Mueller]

Hello,

I was wondering how to set the input gain "the right way" to get a realistic experience with Amplitube (or amp sims in general).

According to the manual, you set your input gain (for every guitar independent) as hot as possible without clipping the Input of your Interface.
Okay cool, (more or less) the same with every microphone or everything else...

But that means that my Fender Telecaster with Singlecoils and my Schecter with active Blackout Humbuckers drive the input of the amp at about the same level.
It also means that i have no difference in terms of "signal hottnes" when raising or lowering the pickups.
When really accurate that also mean, you should not only set your input gain for every guitar but also for every pickup position.
For example: On my tele i have my neck pu way quiter/lower than my bridge pu. I set the input gain by switching to the bridge pu, play quite hard and set the gain on my interface just below clipping. Now i start playing and the the song starts with a clean rythm part, so i switch to the neck pu. According th the manual i should now re-adjust the input level on my interface and my clean sound is not clean anymore....

I know this example is a bit extreme and nobody would do it like this. But i hope you get the point.

It's also not very accurate in terms of realismus. By this I mean, I'm not that experienced of a guitar player (and have totally no experience with real tube amps) and i love to have that many options in amplitube to learn about all that different gear. But how do i know if i could get a clean sound on a Fender Twin with my Schecter or if it would already start distorting on 1. And if i can get it clean, where approximatelly is the point of breakup.
(I don't talk about that "Fender Twin A" doesn't sound exactly the same like "Fender Twin B", i talk about where would be the breakup on the Fender Twin amplitube is modeld off!)

It's nice to have the option to lower the Input gain in Amplitube to get it clean (or vice versa) but for me it would be much better to have a "calibrated" starting point how it would behave in the real world.

On my research to this problem i came across this thread:
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482600

I'm aware of the fact, that its not a good advice to set your input gain on your Interface always to zero, because you get bad signal to noise ratio.
But he is right when saying that IK Multimedias answer was not very "meaningful".
(and i don't think amplitube knows what guitar you plug in or if you turn down the volume because you want it cleaner on this part etc. if there is something like "autogain"....)


I have no clue about Voltages, SPICE or anything like that.
But the fact that companies like Kusassa and Mercurial confirmed his statement and Ignite Amps even describes it in their manual must mean that it does matter!

So, long story short, the Question now is: how to properly set the Input gain in/with amplitube?

To IK Multimedia:
It doesn't have to be ssuuuuuper accurate but to have a starting point would be really nice! Maybe like Ignite but instead of V, stick with db and just tell us how much we "schould" boost/cut if we have singlecoil or humbucker (after setting a healthy gain on the interface)
Maybe make a little menu where you select if you have SS/HSS/HH etc., active or passive and the rest is happening unter the hood
from there you can still boost/cut the input to likings....

and please don't say: just set your input level on your interface just before clipping....

I hope my english is not too bad and you get what i wanted to say

[carlaz]

These are perfectly good questions, though I'm not sure how to get good answers on the technical side.

In my DAW, I try to gain-stage reasonably carefully, and so I tend to put a metering plugin ahead of AmpliTube that helps me adjust my guitar signal so that I can get it hovering around -18 dbFS, which is sort of an unofficial standard for many plugins that model analog gear. (That said, there is no statement from IKM of which I am aware that suggests aiming for a level of -18 dbFS in front of the AmpliTube plugin; I'm just doing that for lack of a better reason and because it seems to work well enough.)

Then, obviously, one can adjust the input level within the AmpliTube UI quite arbitrarily; and, equally obviously, you can crank up the signal from low-output pickups quite a bit more than you can crank up the signal from high-output pickups before the input meter starts to clip. Lacking any better advice, I find that keeping a guitar signal hovering around -18 dbFS in front of the AmpliTube plugin works pretty well. For a guitar with multiple pickups, where one or more pickups is likely going to be hotter than another, I usually just ensure I'm OK for the hottest pickup (i.e., its level is hovering around -18 dbFS) and the other pickups are, naturally, less hot and not driving the amp so much. At least, that's what I do if I plan to switch between pickups and want a reasonably realistic change in how things interact with the (simulated) amp. Obviously, if I'm only recording, say, a particular part using a "less hot" pickup, I will probably just tweak the input level to wherever I think it sounds good.

I do sometimes wonder about how much difference there is between cranking up the input volume and using a clean-boost pedal model ... but I guess even "clean" boosts probably have some effect on the sound. Still, I admit it feels sort of odd to be carefully adjusting the gain in front of the AmpliTube plugin, and then wildly cranking up the "gain" within AmpliTube by using a cranked clean-boost pedal model or something like that ... But it's all within the digital realm, there, so my "gut feeling" about signal level is probably not applicable!

[Matthias Mueller]

Hi Carlaz, thanks for your answer!

In my DAW, I try to gain-stage reasonably carefully, and so I tend to put a metering plugin ahead of AmpliTube that helps me adjust my guitar signal so that I can get it hovering around -18 dbFS, which is sort of an unofficial standard for many plugins that model analog gear. (That said, there is no statement from IKM of which I am aware that suggests aiming for a level of -18 dbFS in front of the AmpliTube plugin; I'm just doing that for lack of a better reason and because it seems to work well enough.)

Yes -18db RMS (0VU) is sort of a standard not just for plugins but also for recording and gain stage in overall. For recording that "rule" makes sure you have enough headroom to not clip any converters and you have a healty level to reduce noise floor. Recording as hot as possible but don't clip comes from the tape machine time where noisefloor was a bigger problem than it is now. With most of todays interfaces you should be fine with even lower recording levels since noisefloor is not that big of a problem (sure you can exaggerate till it becomes a problem....)

Then, obviously, one can adjust the input level within the AmpliTube UI quite arbitrarily; and, equally obviously, you can crank up the signal from low-output pickups quite a bit more than you can crank up the signal from high-output pickups before the input meter starts to clip. Lacking any better advice, I find that keeping a guitar signal hovering around -18 dbFS in front of the AmpliTube plugin works pretty well.

Also yes, in my opinion it's better to record at a lower level (like-18db RMS) and boost the signal inside your DAW/Amplitube because of reasons i mentioned above. But i don't think Amplitube is one of the Plugins that are using -18db as reference. Like most Amp sims don't. It's also in the manual that its more like 0dbFS (Peak) but i think thats not correct either.

I do sometimes wonder about how much difference there is between cranking up the input volume and using a clean-boost pedal model ... but I guess even "clean" boosts probably have some effect on the sound. Still, I admit it feels sort of odd to be carefully adjusting the gain in front of the AmpliTube plugin, and then wildly cranking up the "gain" within AmpliTube by using a cranked clean-boost pedal model or something like that ... But it's all within the digital realm, there, so my "gut feeling" about signal level is probably not applicable!

I think there is a "difference", i belive in IK Multimedia that there are modeling their gear very accurate so when using a boost Pedal you also get some charactersistics from the Pedal cercuitry. Most likely it's very little, depending on what boost(pedal) is used.

But with up to 32bit floating point (even 16 bit should be enough) there is so much headroom, you normaly can't get your DAW to Clip internally with "normal" usage. The same goes for Amplitube, you can "clip" (go in red) the hell out of amplitubes input gain (and gain plugins in front of it) and reduce the signal anywhere before it goes to the master out and you won't get digital clipping. I tried few things this today:
If you try for yourself please make sure to mute the master to not damage your hearing or your speaker!
-Sending a 1k Sine with 0db into a gain Plugin, boost +35db, then send to Amplitube and solo the DI (you can even boost the DI to its limit on the Mixer page in AT) after this set a gain Plugin and reduce by the same amount you boosted in total. on the end put a Oscilloscope (or record to a new track). And you will get the same 0db pure Sinewave without clipping or anything.
-Tried the same but instead of a gain plugin i boosted the signal with Amplitubes 7band EQ Pedal. Not surprising -> no clipping (only difference, you dont see that many red lights )
-Tried the same as the first test but with the default setting instead of the DI signal. Sure distortion apears and the result is not a sinewave but it doesn't look like digital clipping.

No surprise...

So you don't have to be afraid of red lights anywhere as long it's not the master, you won't get digital clipping.
(I also had red light phobie for a long time and still have to a degree, better this way than red line everything )

With this said, i tried to calibrate my Interface accordingly to the "manual" linked in my first post. I have a Babyface ProFS and boost the signal with a gain plugin by 13.8db (this number aplies only to my interface). (I also want to point out that i don't know exactly how the calibration works exactly and i just copied the settings from the other thread, since there was mentioned the Babyface.)
At this point im already near/in the red with my Fender... not to speak from my Schecter but as we learned it doesn't matter.
Also with my Babyface's input gain at 0 I don't run into any noise problems (but i could boost the input a few db on the interface and therefore reduce on the gain plugin by the same amount)

I think Amplitube reacts more realistic that way, and even if they claim that this method doesn't apply to Amplitube..... i think it does
Once set up I don't have to worry about dialing in a "realistic" input gain for different guitars, pickup positions etc. it's all responding natural now. (At least i think it does )

For a guitar with multiple pickups, where one or more pickups is likely going to be hotter than another, I usually just ensure I'm OK for the hottest pickup (i.e., its level is hovering around -18 dbFS) and the other pickups are, naturally, less hot and not driving the amp so much. At least, that's what I do if I plan to switch between pickups and want a reasonably realistic change in how things interact with the (simulated) amp.

Yes, thats the logical way to do this (and one right way to set the input gain of your interface/preamp) and i wouldn't advice anyone to do it like i've mentioned in my first post. It was only as example if you stick super accurate to Amplitubes manual.
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Just to be save:
I want to say that i don't want to blame IK Multimedia nore do i say that if you don't apply this method your tone sucks. In the end it's still: if it sounds good, it is good.
But i would like to give my input on how to improve things and make Amplitube even more realistic (and even better).

[carlaz]

But i don't think Amplitube is one of the Plugins that are using -18db as reference. Like most Amp sims don't. It's also in the manual that its more like 0dbFS (Peak) but i think thats not correct either.

You could be right. People have asked questions similar to yours before, but I do not think that very specific answers have been forthcoming.

I tried few things this today:
If you try for yourself please make sure to mute the master to not damage your hearing or your speaker!
-Sending a 1k Sine with 0db into a gain Plugin, boost +35db, then send to Amplitube and solo the DI (you can even boost the DI to its limit on the Mixer page in AT) after this set a gain Plugin and reduce by the same amount you boosted in total. on the end put a Oscilloscope (or record to a new track). And you will get the same 0db pure Sinewave without clipping or anything.
-Tried the same but instead of a gain plugin i boosted the signal with Amplitubes 7band EQ Pedal. Not surprising -> no clipping (only difference, you dont see that many red lights )
-Tried the same as the first test but with the default setting instead of the DI signal. Sure distortion apears and the result is not a sinewave but it doesn't look like digital clipping.
No surprise...
So you don't have to be afraid of red lights anywhere as long it's not the master, you won't get digital clipping.

Interesting!
(I also had red light phobie for a long time and still have to a degree, better this way than red line everything )

With this said, i tried to calibrate my Interface accordingly to the "manual" linked in my first post. I have a Babyface ProFS and boost the signal with a gain plugin by 13.8db (this number aplies only to my interface). (I also want to point out that i don't know exactly how the calibration works exactly and i just copied the settings from the other thread, since there was mentioned the Babyface.)
At this point im already near/in the red with my Fender... not to speak from my Schecter but as we learned it doesn't matter.
Also with my Babyface's input gain at 0 I don't run into any noise problems (but i could boost the input a few db on the interface and therefore reduce on the gain plugin by the same amount)
I think Amplitube reacts more realistic that way, and even if they claim that this method doesn't apply to Amplitube..... i think it does
Once set up I don't have to worry about dialing in a "realistic" input gain for different guitars, pickup positions etc. it's all responding natural now. (At least i think it does )

Also very interesting!

I want to say that i don't want to blame IK Multimedia nore do i say that if you don't apply this method your tone sucks. In the end it's still: if it sounds good, it is good.
But i would like to give my input on how to improve things and make Amplitube even more realistic (and even better).

Overall, I think there remains much confusion about gain-staging amongst even people who have been mixing audio for a while -- and there must surely be yet more confusion amongst kids who've just grabbed a guitar and fired up AmpliTube for the first time. (Or, I would be confused if I were one of those kids. ) The basic AmpliTube advice of "go as hot as you can without clipping" is not a bad basic rule of thumb, but it would be interesting to have more details.

[Matthias Mueller]

-- and there must surely be yet more confusion amongst kids who've just grabbed a guitar and fired up AmpliTube for the first time. (Or, I would be confused if I were one of those kids. )

Oh yes, there are so many things to think about beside all the gear (but also learn from). Gain stage, Samplerates, Buffer size and latency, all this are things a kid/newbie probably wouldn't even know there existing. But that are things all amp sims have in common and i think you can get away with only knowing the most basic stuff.

The basic AmpliTube advice of "go as hot as you can without clipping" is not a bad basic rule of thumb

I wouldn't say its generally bad but in my opinion you could do better. Since you've mentioned more the beginners (to recording or in general)... Its a point where maybe some would say " Ok i'm mostly in the green/orange and get in the red here and there, couldn't be that bad, i don't hear anything bad." or the other way "better i back up a little more (actually quite a bit ), but wait, now i don't have enough distortion (and i don't know that i can boost with the input or a pedal)"
In my opinion to peak at-6dbFS (or even -3) would be more save, the guy who was clipping before is now save and the other one don't have to fear and can push his signal a bit hotter.
Amplitube could compensate automaticly internally without anyone noticing (to not change the whole gain structure of the plugin.)
But thats only my opinion and for most people it shouldn't matter. It's also a bit off topic (but nice to talk about)

but it would be interesting to have more details.

yes, i would love to get IK Multimedia involved in this, since with different outputs of guitars you can't have one specific refernce level on an amp sim.
At least, i haven't seen anyone calibrating all of his guitars to some kind of loudness meter with the output section of an eq pedal, to make sure all are the same level, before they plug it into an amp. but since our audio interfaces (more or less) force us to do this, we have to compensate for that somehow.

[jjguitar]

yes, i would love to get IK Multimedia involved in this, since with different outputs of guitars you can't have one specific refernce level on an amp sim.
At least, i haven't seen anyone calibrating all of his guitars to some kind of loudness meter with the output section of an eq pedal, to make sure all are the same level, before they plug it into an amp. but since our audio interfaces (more or less) force us to do this, we have to compensate for that somehow.

Is there any suggestion from IK Multimedia how to correctly set up the input of the audio interface for singlecoils ?
This should also be mentioned when uploading a preset to ToneNet otherwise you don´t get the right gain structure.
With low output pickups I adjust the input of the audio interface so it´s not in the red area.
Is this right ?

[dmitch]

One very simple view from this corner: I definitely tailor presets to my individual guitars, even if it's just a matter of trimming the input gain and using the same settings downstream from there. Every preset I have has a guitar in its name and it is optimized for that guitar.

I'm not super fussy about getting meters to a specific exact level when I trim the input level; I am very picky about getting the best sound for that guitar and playing style (finger, pick, strum, single line, etc.).

[Matthias Mueller]

Is there any suggestion from IK Multimedia how to correctly set up the input of the audio interface for singlecoils ?

Yes and No, there is a suggested way to set up any guitar but not specific for singlecoils (that's more or less the problem, why i created this thread)

With low output pickups I adjust the input of the audio interface so it´s not in the red area.
Is this right ?

According to IK Multimedia, yes. But it's exactly the same for high output pickups...
From my perspective, there is not really a right or wrong as long as you never(!) clip your Audio Interface and you have a healthy signal to reduce noise floor. From there you can adjust with the input slider in AT or with a gain plugin in your DAW.

One very simple view from this corner: I definitely tailor presets to my individual guitars, even if it's just a matter of trimming the input gain and using the same settings downstream from there. Every preset I have has a guitar in its name and it is optimized for that guitar.

This would be even more important with the "1VAC Calibration" but you would adjust your gain knob on the amp instead. Like you would do on a real amp.
If you don't achieve desired results, you can still adjust the input slider to your likings and make use of digital advantages.

I'm not super fussy about getting meters to a specific exact level when I trim the input level; I am very picky about getting the best sound for that guitar and playing style (finger, pick, strum, single line, etc.).

My intention for this thread was not necessarily about getting the best sound (since this is very subjective), it's more about getting a ("hyper")realistic sound/feel.

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Since there was another topic with more or less the same problem, i continued writing there.
The following is copied from this thread: https://cgi.ikmultimedia.com/ikforum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29683
You can try this method for yourself and decide for yourself if you like it or not....

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This post now is not very scientific or accurate but maybe i can help someone to get at least in the ballpark to this calibration without actually calibrate.

I took some "measurements" with the 1VAC=0dbFS calibration. All knobs (on the guitar) fully cranked. I played very hard. I noted the maximum peak level.

Tele:
Bridge: Mexico 50's Tele
Neck: Mexico Vintage Tele
(i don't know if this is 100% correct but you get the point, ...t style singlecoils...)

Tele Bridge PU:
Palm muted E String: +0dbFS
Strummed G Chord: +1.7dbFS

Tele Neck PU:
Palm muted E String: -7dbFS
Strummed G Chord: -4dbFS


Schecter:
Bridge: Seymour Duncan BlackOuts AHB-1
Neck: Seymour Duncan BlackOuts AHB-1
(...active Humbucker....)

Schecter Bridge PU:
Palm muted E String: +9dbFS
Strummed G Chord: +11dbFS

Schecter Neck PU:
Palm muted E String: +7dbFS
Strummed G Chord: +10,5dbFS

-Plug in your guitar and set up your recording level like you would normaly do. (-18db, as hot as you can without clipping or whatever level you like, it doesn't matter. But don't clip your converter...)
-In your DAW put a gain plugin on the guitar track and raise the level while you play till it matches with the numbers i posted. (yes, most likely you will see red lights, thats okay. Just put a limiter on your master for now.)
- You may want to adjust the amount of boost to compensate for your own pickups (sadly i can't give any numbers here, you have to go with your ears and feelings)
(- you can also do this in amplitube by adjusting the input but make sure you solo the DI signal!)
-Now you can put Amplitube into your chain and you are ready to go.
-Once set up you should be able to change guitars without changeing anything else. (To keep the "characteristics" of different guitars intact.)

If you try this for yourself please let me/us know if you like it or not or what you think.
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To "proove" that this method applies to Amplitube i found this in the manual of the real Engl e650:

2 Clean
The amount of distortion depends on your guitar's pickups and the Gain (11) setting
Low or High. In Clean mode, single-coil pickups may begin saturating the preamp
when the Clean Gain knob is set to about the four o'clock position; pickups with very
high output levels (humbuckers or active pickups) will evoke mild overdrive at even
lower settings.
If your guitar sports single-coils and you want to add some grit to your tone and bite to
your riffs, set the knob somewhere between 12 and 4 o'clock. For higher output pick-
ups such as humbucking or active jobs, dial in settings between 10 and 2 o'clock and
activate Gain (11).

With Calibration this settings seem to be pretty accurate.
Without Calibration i'm off. When leaving the difference between both guitars intact and set the highest output of both to "near clipping". My Schecter is now about as hot as a singlecoil should be and my Fender is....
I think we all can imagine what happens when setting the input for both guitars seperate to "near clipping" and "make them the same"....

[LuisAngel1980]

I also has the same issue when it comes to use plugins. This approach of raising the level before Amplitube is what I normally do to compensate the different pickups types, but I wonder if we should raise in the case of humbuckers, or lower in the case of single coil, e.g. lower for single coil, do nothing with humbuckers, raise if you are using active pickups.

It would be great to hear from IK Multimedia about this and how they have normalized the input.

[Matthias Mueller]

Hi LuisAngel,

nice to see that someone is still interested in this thread.

This approach of raising the level before Amplitube is what I normally do to compensate the different pickups types, but I wonder if we should raise in the case of humbuckers, or lower in the case of single coil, e.g. lower for single coil, do nothing with humbuckers, raise if you are using active pickups.

Yes, when you change the input on the interface to match different guitars, you "have to" compensate like you said but with this calibration its set and forgett for all your guitars. Also the amp will respond different cause in most cases/for most pickups you want your level going into Amplitube over 0dbFS to respond "correctly" (in my oppinion...). ...So you may want to lower the gain settings on the amp preset you used previously.

Please feel free to try the method i explained in my previous post and tell me what you think.
It's not 100% accurate to do it this way but it should bring you in the ballpark.
If you have questions, or there is something you dont understand please feel free to ask.

It would be great to hear from IK Multimedia about this and how they have normalized the input.

Would be great but i think it will never happen :/

[machinated]

There is a lot of misinformation about this topic, and its quite tiring to get anywhere with it.

Put simply - the goal for an emulation is to give the user the same experience with the plugin as plugging the guitar directly into the real amp.

This is complicated with plugins, because everyone is using different interfaces, with different dBu/Voltage->dBFS references, and also with different amounts of input gain.

Therefore amp sims have an input slider to allow you to compensate for the variability of different inputs.

Each amp sim developer uses their own internal reference level for what 1V corresponds to as a digital signal. This is essential when making a model - you have an input signal and this signal is processed to the output.

Some people recommend basing the input level from the peak signal from the guitar - this is far from ideal as some guitars SHOULD provide a lower signal to the amplifier than other guitars. We DO NOT want to make a low output single coil hit the amp equally to a loud humbucker. We want both guitars to have the same response from the software as we would get when plugging the corresponding guitars into the real amp - quieter guitars will yield proportionally less gain than loud ones. Its important to preserve this relationship if we want an accurate experience.

Some people also recommend increasing the preamp gain on the interface until you are just below clipping. This is also quite flawed - the self noise of a DI and A/D chain is extremely minimal, and negligible compared to other sources of noise, like the outside interference into your pickups. Furthermore, boosting preamp gain may introduce its own noise or colouration. Its far more useful to have a KNOWN amount of headroom so you can accurate set plugin input levels for a consistent result.

The only options are:

- guess the correct input level to use. Very difficult when dialling with a huge list of amps, most of which no one will have any real world experience with. Some amps are extremely rare and expensive and users will have absolutely no idea what response to expect.
- IK can provide simple but clear information on what input headroom the model expects for accurate gain response. As things stand, its not available, but IMO its essential if the user is to experience an accurate performance from the model.

The best advice I can give is to ask whoever will listen at IK for more information on this topic. It is possible for them to determine and share this, and everyone benefits. No misinformation, no confusion, no guesswork, better tones.

[dmitch]

the goal for an emulation is to give the user the same experience with the plugin as plugging the guitar directly into the real amp.

That's one perspective. My goal when using an emulation is to get a good guitar sound. I never played through a Mesa Boogie Mk IV; I just know that the AT5 emulation of it sounds fantastic and I know how to get a really good guitar sound out of it.

I don't care if the input levels are what the designers intended. Maintaining the different levels of a Strat vs. humbuckers doesn't matter to me. I just want to get a good tone for a given guitar in a given context. I mash up the levels however I need to go get the best tone. I use a higher gain preamp for a Strat because it sounds better to me. I don't care that this isn't what a real Strat plugged in to a real Mk IV sounds like. That makes absolutely no difference to me.

Each amp sim developer uses their own internal reference level for what 1V corresponds to as a digital signal. This is essential when making a model - you have an input signal and this signal is processed to the output.

Feel free to ignore this if, like me, you're not overly concerned with matching the behavior of the original hardware amp.

some guitars SHOULD provide a lower signal to the amplifier than other guitars. We DO NOT want to make a low output single coil hit the amp equally to a loud humbucker. We want both guitars to have the same response from the software as we would get when plugging the corresponding guitars into the real amp

Easy now. Speak for yourself. That does not apply to everyone.

Ultimately this is music we're talking about. There is no one-size-fits-all scheme of doing *anything.* If something works for you, great! It might not work for me. Everyone should find their own way, IMHO.

The best advice I can give is to ask whoever will listen at IK for more information on this topic. It is possible for them to determine and share this, and everyone benefits. No misinformation, no confusion, no guesswork, better tones.

I agree that more information is better. But there are other ways to get great tones than attempting to precisely match conditions of a hardware amp.

[machinated]

That's one perspective. My goal when using an emulation is to get a good guitar sound. I never played through a Mesa Boogie Mk IV; I just know that the AT5 emulation of it sounds fantastic and I know how to get a really good guitar sound out of it.

Why bother putting Mesa Boogie on the front of it and going to the trouble of modelling all the controls and features in GREAT detail, and with tons of accuracy if it’s not important?

It may not be important to you, but you didn’t make the plugin. It’s an analog emulation, it’s based on the real amp and it IS supposed to resemble the real amp. Doesn’t matter if you care about accuracy or not, but what’s the point in IK making an emulation at all (instead of generic random amps) if it’s not accurate?

It’s absolutely fine if it doesn’t matter for you, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter for others. I can get great tones any which way - I’ll choose the options that are fastest and most familiar to me. If I’m second guessing myself, I’ll just use something else. It’s in IK’s interest to get those cleared up once and for all and then people who don’t care can carry on as they are, and people who do care about accuracy can adjust one knob and leave everyone alone.

Withholding that information or pretending it’s irrelevant gets nobody anywhere. Saying you don’t care about accuracy is all well and good for you but unfortunately it doesn’t help anyone else who has different expectations.

The fact is; they are emulations based on real world amplifiers that have measurable and demonstrable results. If they weren’t emulations, I wouldn’t care. Saying that they are emulations and that they are based on circuits that give measurable and predictable results is not an opinion - its a fact. If you don't care about accuracy, its an opinion. It doesn't mean that its not important to other users.

[dmitch]

That's one perspective. My goal when using an emulation is to get a good guitar sound. I never played through a Mesa Boogie Mk IV; I just know that the AT5 emulation of it sounds fantastic and I know how to get a really good guitar sound out of it.

It’s absolutely fine if it doesn’t matter for you, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter for others.

Relax. I did not say it doesn't. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I'm just saying that attempting to set input levels to precisely match levels seen at the hardware amp is not the only way to get good tone. That, as you would say, is a FACT. That is not an opinion.

My description about my workflow and methods was not intended to be presented as a factual, "this is the way" disquisition. It was illustration.

It’s in IK’s interest to get those cleared up once and for all

As I said, I agree with this, I agree that more information is better.

Saying you don’t care about accuracy is all well and good for you but unfortunately it doesn’t help anyone else who has different expectations.

I did not present my approach as a one-size-fits-all model. I am trying to explain that there is more than one way to get to the desired result. It is my hope that pointing this out may, in fact, help other folks. Your posts make it sound like you think there is One True Way, and I respectfully disagree. In music, there is never One True Way.

[machinated]

I'm just saying that attempting to set input levels to precisely match levels seen at the hardware amp is not the only way to get good tone

with respect, the topic is not about good tone. Good tone is subjective and has no bearing on whether an amplifier emulation is accurate, or anything to do with input levels. I could put a real amp at goofy settings or strange voltages and get good tones in the right context.

The discussion really, is about getting an accurate response from the emulation. Myself, and many many other users would simply like to use the model and have the most accurate representation to plugging their guitar into the real amp.

This is not a tall order; many other plugins and HW modellers offer this and it’s a basic part of how you use this stuff. I’m not disagreeing with you, I just think what you are saying doesn’t really help users who want to get the most accurate experience from this software. The software is more than capable of producing VERY accurate tones to the real amp, but the only way to achieve these with any consistency or verifiability is by knowing the correct input headroom.

Anyone is free to do what they like with that information; much in the same way people can do all kinds of “incorrect” things with real amps to get the tone they need. Having a good starting point makes it a much better experience. It doesn’t need to be a controversial or divisive topic, but it also doesn’t need to get confused with “oh just dial it in to sound good”. I can assure you, everyone is capable of dialling it in to a sound they like.