Difference between Brit V1 & Brit V2!!

[Jamesbarnes]

have a question about Vintage 30 simulations in Amplitube 4, as I see there are many options. As far as I have investigated, both Brit V1, V2 and V3 are Vintage 30, as well as Brit Vintage 8 and 16.

What's the difference between all of them? Is it about impedance? Could it be that Brit V2 is the V30 made in England (for Mesa) and the others are the ones made in China?

[Peter_IK]

Just to let you know, Ryan had asked the devs about this but I have not yet seen a reply to his question. I just bumped it to get some info as soon as possible. Thanks!

[Ryan_IK]

Hey Jamesbarnes!

Looking into this, I got some great info from the team. I've listed this below. Let me know if you have any other questions

British V1 = Vintage 30, 16 Ohm, Mesa Boogie (custom speaker)
British V2 = Vintage 30, 8 Ohm, Mesa Boogie (custom speaker)
British Vintage 8 = Vintage 30, 8 Ohm, Made in China
British Vintage 16A = Vintage 30, 16 Ohm, Made in China
British Vintage 16B = Vintage 30, 16 Ohm, Made in UK

[sschow1]

is there any consolidated place where we can get a list of all the 12" speakers that are included in AT4, model by model?

The differences are not always obvious in the GUI.

For example, the G12H30 is basically the Brit Anniversary, though I would not have figured that out without googling around. And I don't know what is the difference between Anniversary 1 and Anniversary 2.

Another question I have is what happens under the covers in terms of the mic placements? If I have a 4x12 with two mics...and if I put, for example, 4 different speakers into the cabinet..will the mics only reflect the the speaker that is pictured behind that mic, as pictured, (two of them basically being ignored).. or does the speaker IR somehow get the combination of all 4 speaker models blended from whatever mic positions we have? Anyway if you could clarify, would appreciate it.

I am trying to replicate the sound of Vintage30+G12H30 together in one cabinet.

But I'd like to investigate some other possibilities and just want to know what speakers I'm emulating or trying out.. to kind of guess what to expect from the speaker specs, etc..

[carlaz]

I've already sent you my (entirely unofficial and personal!) notes on Amplitube's 12" speaker models, but just for fun, I'll address some of the specific issues (to the best of my ability!).

For example, the G12H30 is basically the Brit Anniversary, though I would not have figured that out without googling around. And I don't know what is the difference between Anniversary 1 and Anniversary 2.

AFAICT, the difference between the speakers on which Brit Anniversary 1 and 2 are modeled is principally one of ohms. The Brit Anniversary 1 is in the model of the Dr.Z 1x12 combo, the physical version of which uses (or can use!) a G12H (70th) Anniversary 30w, 8-ohm. The Brit Anniversary 2 is in the model of the Orange Tiny Terror 1x12” Combo, the physical version of which uses (or can use) a G12H (70th) Anniversary 30w, 16-ohm speaker.

Another question I have is what happens under the covers in terms of the mic placements? If I have a 4x12 with two mics...and if I put, for example, 4 different speakers into the cabinet..will the mics only reflect the the speaker that is pictured behind that mic, as pictured, (two of them basically being ignored).. or does the speaker IR somehow get the combination of all 4 speaker models blended from whatever mic positions we have? Anyway if you could clarify, would appreciate it.

AFAICT, the non-mic'd speakers do affect the sound. If you put radically different speakers in the non-mic'd quadrants of the cab, you can hear the difference (especially if you have one of more mics well backed off from the cab ).

I am trying to replicate the sound of Vintage30+G12H30 together in one cabinet.

There are a bunch of V30 variants, as far as I can tell: Brit V1-3, Brit Vintage 8, Brit Vintage 16A-B.

[sschow1]

Yep thanks for that. I had posted this question before you sent me that and before I even saw that other forum thread.

Does anyone hear any difference in sound between say the 5 different VIntage30's that are included with AT4, or the two Anniversary models?

I have been experimenting lately with capturing IR's from AT4 cabs... Maybe I will try to capture each of those in a simple 1x12 configuration and we can compare the resulting IR EQ curves to see if there is any difference. I would think there must be since IK included them all, but just wondering what people think in actual practice.

I can definitely hear the difference between V30's and say the Classic Leads, or the H30's, etc..

[sschow1]

So... I was curious... Below is an image comparing the IR curves for each of the AT4 v30 speakers. They are definitely different, not sure how significantly so, but they sure are. This was captured with a single SM57 mic at the cone against the grill in a Marshall 1x12 cab.

in the following order

Brit V1
Brit V2
Brit V3
Brit Vintage 8
Brit Vintage 16A
Brit VIntage 16B

It would also be interesting to know if any of the new technology that Peter has referred to a few times, does anything beyond what I could capture with a sine sweep into IR. For example, does the 16ohm version interact with the amp in some way differently then the 8ohm would, in some kind of nonlinear way that would not be shown on this...

[carlaz]

Interesting! Though it shouldn't surprise us that the various Vintage 30 models are different: as far as I can tell, many cab manufacturers use slightly tweaked "bespoke" variants of Celestion speakers (not least Vintage 30s) for their branded cabs. So there is also a whole slew of physical Vintage 30 variants banging around out there in the real world. Very probably a physical "Vintage 30" speaker plucked from a (for example) physical Mesa cab will sound slightly different than a physical "Vintage 30" speaker plucked from a (for example) physical Marshall cab, etc.

[carlaz]

Also, the modeling (in AT4) is not quite so sophisticated as to distinguish between whether speakers are wired in series, in parallel, or in some combination of those. Also, AT4 doesn't worry about how many ohms an amp model is theoretically putting out, or what happens if your modeled speaker's impedance might be lower than the modeled amp's output impedance -- though I sometimes think that future versions of Amplitube should have animated graphics of smoking amps or cabs.

[sschow1]

Well also we don't know how the Celestion's are modeled internally. If they used IR's, then honestly one V30 and another exact same model could sound slightly different just because one is broken in and other one isn't or slight differences such as that. The IR's I captured VISUALLY show some very slight differences in some cases, in some cases the resonances are a little more different, etc.

When I get some time I will do some sound comparison testing. I tried to do it already just by listening to them, but it takes just long enough between switching speaker cones that I'm not 100% sure if I hear a distinctive difference. I will record 6 tracks so that I can listen to them quickly in comparison, keeping everything else as equal as possible.

I can definitely hear differences between the V30 and other non-V30 models...and the V30 in general has a distinctive sound, which all 6 of these seem to have also... Whether or not they are distinctively still yet different enough to warrant adding more speakers to choose from, I'm not too sure yet, but remain open minded until I can do a proper sound comparison.

Peter has mentioned on other threads somewhere that IK introduced some kind of cab related technology within recent years...that may model some of the push pull dynamic that happens between amp and speaker, as I recall. If so, its possible that would take into account if one speaker is 8ohm and other is 16ohm, etc. maybe. Would love to hear more from IK on this topic.